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Thread: problem with liquidweb
06-06-2011, 10:20 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
problem with liquidweb
I have had some really bad problems with liquidweb. Obviously this is my own experience, maybe you have had a good experience with them, and I am sure that most people do. I will try to write this from a neutral perspective and stick to the facts and try to not be so emotional about things. Obviously anything I write is my own experience, and may not reflect yours.
I have had a lot of problems with liquidweb, but I am just going to keep this post to the liquidweb billing problem, because I have already left their network but this issue still remains. I thought that this was resolved and I wasn't going to post here anymore, but sadly it is not a result. When I posted here before, people thought that it was just a misunderstanding.
I run a network with some friends that had a network of over 20-30+ servers. Most of them (20+) were at liquidweb. We started the network in early 2008 and chose liquidweb for their managed services.
Due to problems, we decided to leave their network and started to close servers in April 2011, after being a customer for 3 + years.
On May 1st, I asked for the billing date to be moved to May 5th because I wanted to close the other servers around this time. However, they overcharged me another month by "accident". I asked them if they should fix the overcharge immediately since I was closing the servers and won't be staying another month, or if that's okay. They told me not to worry about it, and that the servers can be pro-rated.
They told me not to worry about the overcharge of an entire month, and said that the servers can be pro-rated. They wrote on May 6th:
"Once you close the server it will prorate the amount due. To close a server
please open a new ticket requesting the hostname/IP of the server you wish to
Okay that sounds good to me. Liquidweb said that the servers would be pro-rated. I asked in advance because I did not want to pay "double" server charges, if that makes sense. I was migrating to a new server provider and had to order the new servers. But I want to order them on a date that doesn't overlap with the liquidweb servers and the dates are compatible (please tell me if this does not make sense to you). Since they were pro-rated, it won't be an issue that I buy the new servers on an odd day in the middle of a month on a date like the 6th, 10th, 18th, whatever. So I went ahead and slowly started to purchase the rest of the servers on the new server provider that we were moving to, in the middle of a billing cycle.
Yes I trusted them because I am a trusting person and didn't think that they would actually say something like this about something as important as this if they didn't mean it. When when I asked for them to pro-rate the servers they said, sorry, the servers will not be pro-rated, because it is in the TOS that the servers cannot be pro-rated, and what we told you in the past does not hold.
He said this on May 23rd:
"Our TOS clearly states that we do not provide partial refunds on terminated
services. If this was done in the past was due to a courtesy but we no longer
will provide such concessions. Please have in mind that these kind of
concessions are at our discretion and we no longer will provide them to you."
Now the problems with that, among other things:
1. If it was in their TOS - then why didn't they simply disclose their TOS to me when I specifically asked about this specific issue in advance? Especially if it is so "clearly stated"?
2. This is not the "past". This was on the same issue that I had *just* asked about. It is not a "past" issue, it is was *this* issue, the issue that I had just asked about, specifically regarding this, and acted in the way that I did because of their response.
At first I thought it was a mistake, as many of you thought it was, and a simple misunderstanding. But I contacted them, and they just refused to admit what they told me earlier.
Maybe I am just being crazy, I think they purposely told me that the servers could be pro-rated in order to keep that overcharge. It was my last few days with them, so I wouldn't be paying them anymore, and they told me the servers could be pro-rated instead of fixing that overcharge when I asked them about it, so they can keep the overcharge.
I specifically ask them how they handle server closings and pro-ratings. Because of what they told me, I ordered my new servers in the middle of the billing cycle, since they told me that it was pro-ratable and wouldn't matter anyways. Liquidweb told me their servers were pro-ratable, so that means if I close the server on May 6th, then I would just be paying for May 1st-May 6th. So I thought it would work out nicely if I didn't pay double server costs, if that makes sense.
They knew that if they told me that the servers weren't pro-ratable, they'd have to send back the entire charge, since I would just leave in 24 hours or as fast as humanly possible. They made me keep the server partial days, and then wanted to charge me the whole month, by saying now that their TOS doesn't allow servers to be pro-rated.
If they don't pro-rate servers according to their TOS, then why don't they disclose to me when I ask about their policy? The reason I asked was because I did not know, and I needed to know. They intentionally didn't tell me their TOS, and made me believe that servers could be pro-rated, to keep another month from me during my last few days as I was closing servers. Because they knew that otherwise I would close the servers within 24 hours and they wouldn't be able to charge me anymore at all. This way, by telling me that servers could be pro-rated, they can make me keep the servers a few days of the month because they made me think that it wouldn't matter. But it does matter. As a result, I paid "double" server charges, and now Liquidweb has a whole month overcharge from me which they refuse to properly send back to me. I ordered servers at my new server providers on odd days in the billing month. Liquidweb made me believe there would be no overlapping days and I woul
dn't be paying double server charges.
The thing is I do not want to pay for even a day that I do not use a server, and this is why I asked specifically about their policy. I wonder what they would have said, *if I had not even asked explicitly*, that if I had just believed this based on what they told me in the past, and that really scares me.
They never should have charged that overcharge in the first place. It's not even a refund, it fixing an overcharge they never should have done in the first place. They should have fixed it immediately when I asked. They should have disclosed to me their TOS when I asked about their policy. They specifically didn't tell me this because they just wanted to get more $ from me and made me believe that keeping a server partial days of the month, will only be charged for those partial days. I asked because it mattered, but they didn't tell me their TOS when I asked. They only told me that it was in their TOS that servers couldn't be pro-rated (after just telling me that it didn't matter and that servers *could* be pro-rated when I asked about this specific situation), after I had already used up days.
I wouldn't have acted in the way that I did and did the migrations the way that I did (in terms of planning the dates to order the servers, closed the servers), if they had told me their TOS. Of course I can never prove this since it's something in their minds, but I think they did it on purpose in order to keep that overcharge.
Why not tell me it is in their TOS that servers cannot be pro-rated when I asked about the specific issue? Because they knew that I would have acted differently. I wouldn't have kept servers for partial months if it mattered, because I did not want to pay double server costs. They knew that the entire month of overcharge would need to fixed immediately. So they told me that servers could be pro-rated for partial months, so I would keep the servers partial months, but then later they will just say that it is in their TOS that servers could not be pro-rated.
I would have acted differently, and they knew it. **I wouldn't have left in the middle of a billing cycle if I knew that their "overcharge" was doomed and they would never send that back to me if I even used part of it.** I wouldn't have closed or ordered servers on odd dates, if I knew that the overlapping dates were doomed, which they made me believe that it would not matter and that it would be pro-rated for only the days that I used.
I paid double server costs as a result and now have been overcharged a month that liquidweb will not properly fix, as a result of their false statements to me about their TOS and not disclosing that when I asked and was planning the migration, the critical time when it mattered, and when they knew that it mattered.
If servers cannot be pro-rated then you need to tell me. Especially if I ask. It's a scary thought that if I didn't even ask because I believed what they told me even in the past, that I wouldn't even have caught them in this kind of thing, and the things that they would have even tried to do then.
I guess I'm being a bit repetitive now, but I just cannot believe this. I am a customer for 3+ years. They haven't had enough $ from me? Obviously this is just about the money, for just charging me an extra month during my last few days because I wouldn't be with them anymore anyways, and they would lose me after that anyways, so why not try to get that last month while they can. It doesn't even matter if I'm mad since I won't be buying from them anyways, so they might as well try right? Is it completely crazy to think that they did this to me on purpose? Sometimes I think they say certain things just because they don't like me. Once, they said there was a certain credit. At one point, one of the sales people said that the a certain amount of the credit for one of the servers would be given back. But then I said something he did not like and disagreed with him so I kept arguing, and I guess he took it personally, and then decided that credit wouldn't be given to me a
fter all. What they overcharged doesn't depend on arbitrary things like this, or whether or not a salesperson likes me. But they took back things they previously said, for no reason, it was just arbitrary.
Why won't they just let me leave peacefully and send me back the overcharge they never should have done in the first place? I already paid double server costs as a result of the false things they purposely told me to make me believe that servers could be pro-rated, when it was "clear" to them (in their own words) that they could not be. They know I'm big and because I have so many servers they can overcharge me anything they want, but this is unacceptable. When I didn't have so many servers, they used to give me discounts. After we got a lot of servers, they stopped that, and then they raised the server prices on the servers that were previously discounted. After I got big, they sneaked in $20 to a server every so often here and there to servers they previously gave to me at discounts, thinking that I wouldn't notice (and sadly, I didn't notice it for many months because I trusted them, but they add up and eventually I noticed that something with the total amount wasn't
right, and I looked at individual prices of the servers and they weren't what they began with and I was never told about the changes). But now it was way too long ago and it is too long after to dispute it. The total server costs was in the thousands so $20 did not matter compared to the thousands, that is true, but is it ok to just sneak in small increases in server prices?
That's not the end of it. I explicitly told them that I do not use paypal. Then they randomly sent me a paypal payment, to me, for the *wrong* amount. It's like saying, take this, even though they know I don't have paypal and it wasn't even close to the right amount. Also I had removed my main email from liquidweb since I was leaving and didn't want them to save my email, and changed the email to another dummy email that I just use to forward to my main account but which isn't my main account, if that makes sense. So they just sent a paypal payment to the middle of nowhere after I already said that I don't use payola.
We have had our fights and they obviously do not like me. Which doesn't help me I guess. Don't want to get into personal stuff, so I'll just try to stick to the billing issue.
Judge the billing issue and tell me if I'm right or wrong. If I am wrong I am happy to back off and just let this go, but I truly believe that I am right. If you need me to post anything else that will help, just tell me.
How I want this to be resolved
I just want the money that belongs to me. That's all I am asking.
Thanks for reading.
06-08-2011, 07:44 AM #2
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
well, it is very sad to hear about your experience dealing with them.. When choosing hosting provider be sure that it has nice reputation.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.. It will be very help for the community when choosing a host..
I can say that customer hosting reviews always help to know if the host is trustworthy.
06-15-2011, 03:25 AM #3
- Join Date
- May 2011
Thanks for sharing your experience. It unfortunate that you had to go through this. One should always look for hidden aspects, costs, overage charges, setup costs or any such 'off the price list' expenses which can come in and cause unnecessary and irritating problems. It would be a good idea to read the webhost's legal page and look for their terms of service as well. What is right for them, may not necessarily be right for you too.
Please remember, when you click on the sign-up button and have purchased a hosting plan, it is assumed that you have read all terms and conditions and also accept all of those in totality. Any changes or amendments made to those would have to be followed by you. It is stated clearly in the TOS.
I completely understand you as a customer and your predicament. Its really unfortunate that all this transpired.